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    Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

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    Breloom

    Join Date : 2011-09-11
    Posts : 19

    Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

    Post by Breloom on Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:08 am

    This team... needs suggestions >.>
    Kraziub may remember battling this team when I was called Garydos(I might have had Gliscor over Metagross at the time though)... It's not very good, which is why I'm asking for suggestions!

    Anyways, here's the team:

    Team at a glance:





    HEATRAN @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Flamethrower
    -Earth Power
    -Hidden Power Grass

    Spoiler:
    Heatran is an important part of my team because it sets up Stealth Rock and is the Fire Type in my Fire-Water-Grass core. I prefer Flamethrower over Fire Blast because I hate untimely misses. Earth Power provides good coverage with Flamethrower and hits several key threats super-effectively, mainly opposing Heatran. The majority of Heatrans run Hidden Power Ice in the last slot, but I use Hidden Power Grass to get a surprise kill on some water types.
    Maximum special attack EVs are to take advantage of Heatran's gargantuan Special Attack stat, while 252 speed EVs allow it to beat most variants of opposing Heatran 1-on-1.



    GYARADOS @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 216 HP/136 Atk/4 Def/152 Spe
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Stone Edge
    -Taunt

    Spoiler:
    I used to have Garchomp here for a full Dragon/Steel team, but it got banned, and I found Gyarados to be more effective than Kingdra/Hydreigon/Haxorus/Kyurem/Latios/Dragonite, so I used Gyarados instead.
    Gyarados is an incredible mixture of power and bulk. This Gyarados reaches 385 HP, 195 Def and 236 spD. It also has Intimidate to help patch up its weaker defense. This gyarados also has an incredible 352 Atk and 236 Spe, which allows it to outspeed Thundurus after a Dragon Dance. Gyarados is the Water type pokemon in my Fire-Water-Grass core.
    Dragon Dance grants Gyarados more power and more speed all at once, making it an excellent for Gyarados to have. Waterfall and Stone Edge provide excellent coverage together, with Waterfall being its main STAB move, and Taunt allows it to set up on some walls such as Hippowdon and Skarmory.



    SALAMENCE @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Nature: Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Blast.

    Spoiler:
    Salamence is decently bulky, hits very hard from either side of the spectrum, and is decently fast. It was Uber in gen 4 for a reason. Not much explanation needed here, the basic sweeping EVs and Nature, Dragon Dance to boost Salamence's attack and speed to amazing levels, Outrage and Earthquake providing the basic coverage, and Fire Blast to beat Skarmory, Forretress, and physically defensive variants of Ferrothorn.



    LATIAS @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Draco Meteor
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Surf
    -Trick

    Spoiler:
    I used to have Calm Mind Latias, but then I realized that too many of my pokemon required set-up to be effective, so I changed it to a Choice Specs variant. Before you say how Latios is superior in this role, keep in mind that my other Dragon type, Salamence, is rather frail when considering its Nature and weakness to Stealth Rock, so this Latias, despite its lack of defensive EVs, can also act as a defensive pivot when needed, something that Latios is too frail to do.
    Basically what this Latias does is switch in on a resisted or ground move (or after one of my pokemon has been KOed), then start spamming Draco Meteors, which although aren't as powerful as Latios's, are still powerful enough to OHKO more offensive opponents. If it's late in the game and I think Latias can go for a Dragon Pulse sweep, then I'll do it. Surf provides good coverage with dragon type attacks, and doesn't lower my speed like Hidden Power Fire does. Finally, Trick cripples Ferrothorn, Blissey, and several other switch-ins.



    FERROTHORN @ Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP/8 Def/248 SpD
    Nature: Sassy (+SpD, -Spe)
    -Curse
    -Gyro Ball
    -Leech Seed
    -Power Whip

    Spoiler:
    The first time I used this Ferrothorn, I 6-0ed someone. I've been using it on this team ever since.
    Curse raises my attack, allowing my moves to do more damage, my defense, allowing me to absorb physical hits better, and lowers my speed, which might be bad on most pokemon, but for this Ferrothorn, it's a good thing, because it boosts the power of Gyro Ball. Leech Seed allows me to slowly but steadily set up on some Pokemon, until I begin firing off overpowered Gyro Balls. This Ferrothorn absorbs thunder waves and such, because it makes its Gyro Ball all the more powerful. Thanks to its special defense EVs and Nature, this Ferrothorn takes special hits like a pro while boosting its defense with Curse.
    Ferrothorn is the Grass type pokemon in my Fire-Water-Grass core.



    METAGROSS @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 204 HP/216 Atk/80 Def/8 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Nature: Brave (+Atk, -Spe)
    -Hammer Arm
    -Gyro Ball
    -Bullet Punch
    -Earthquake

    Spoiler:
    Gliscor used to be here, but it was too trollish and people who I didn't know were randomly flaming me when I swept them with it. Plus, it was walled by several common pokemon such as Ferrothorn and opposing Gliscor.
    Then, I joined Team Metagross. I replaced Gliscor with Metagross for clan pride, and I'm glad I did so. Metagross acts as my physical wall, being approximately as bulky physically as Skarmory, but can also hit extremely hard so it isn't set-up bait for taunters, unlike Skarmory. I originally ran the standard metagross support set, but I already have someone to set up Stealth Rock and plus, this metagross is bulkier.
    Hammer Arm does damage to stuff like Ferrothorn and lowers Metagross's speed, powering up Gyro Ball, which has STAB and is coming off Metagross's enormous attack, allowing it to do serious damage. Bullet Punch allows Metagross to take out weakened threats and the priority is useful when paired with Hammer Arm lowering its speed. Earthquake provides decent coverage with Steel-type moves and allows Metagross to not have to rely on Hammer Arm's shaky accuracy to kill stuff like Lucario.
    The EVs give it considerable bulk, enough to survive Lucario's Swords Danced Life Orb Close Combat. 204 HP hits a Leftovers number, allowing Metagross to recover 22 HP per turn. 216 Atk hits an attack number, giving Metagross an extra attack point for the +Nature. 80 Def allows Metagross to always survive Air Balloon Excadrill's Earthquake after Stealth Rock. Finally, the 8 SpD EVs allow Metagross to wall Mixed attackers better (I have Ferrothorn for all-out Special attackers.)


    Exportable version:

    Spoiler:
    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Flamethrower
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 216 HP / 136 Atk / 4 Def / 152 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Taunt
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge

    Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast

    Latias (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Surf
    - Trick

    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Curse
    - Gyro Ball
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip

    Metagross @ Leftovers
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 204 HP / 216 Atk / 80 Def / 8 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Hammer Arm
    - Gyro Ball
    - Bullet Punch
    - Earthquake

    Thank you for reading. Please give me suggestions and rate from 1-10.


    Last edited by Breloom on Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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    harsha
    Server Admin Alumnus
    Server Admin Alumnus

    Join Date : 2011-07-13
    Posts : 634

    Re: Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

    Post by harsha on Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:12 am

    Cool team as of now. I would like to point out a weakness to Thundurus in the Rain. At +2, it will rip through this. Then again, most teams share this weakness. I'll complete a rate when I'm done with an essay I have to write. By the way, I'd recommend either going with Bulk, or Offense on the EV spreads. Some are normal, while others are out of whack. Partitioning jobs seems to work well this generation.


    Last edited by Harsha on Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Breloom

    Join Date : 2011-09-11
    Posts : 19

    Re: Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

    Post by Breloom on Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:17 am

    Thundurus is the one thing that completely destroys my entire team :/ It doesn't even need rain if it gets a nasty plot up...

    Anyways, threat list Very Happy (Bold = serious threat)

    Threats:
    Excadrill- As long as I've played well earlier in the match, Excadrill really isn't a problem at all. If Heatran can keep its Air Balloon intact, most Excadrills will have to rely on Rock Slide flinch to beat it. Salamence and Gyarados can both dominate Excadrill 1-on-1 if they're at high health, barring Rock Slide flinches. Latias is immune to Earthquake and can Surf- or better yet- Trick a Choice Specs onto Excadrill. If at high health, Ferrothorn can leech seed Excadrill and proceed to set up multiple curses. Finally, Metagross can beat Air Balloon variants if they haven't gotten a Swords Dance up yet.

    Conkeldurr- Gyarados can usually beat it with Taunt + Dragon Dance. Although Stone Edge will deal quite a bit, most run Payback and Intimidate will soften the blow. Latias can also either trick a Choice Specs onto it or simply fire off its powerful Draco Meteor.

    Hydreigon- Specs variants generally aren't too dangerous, scarfed variants however, can outspeed my two dragons and KO them, as well as revenge killing Gyarados and Fire Blasting Ferrothorn/Metagross. However, Gyarados can take a single Draco Meteor, and with some good prediction, I can force it to switch multiple times until Stealth Rock takes its toll. Heatran walls Hydreigon and vice-versa, however, Heatran will usually win in the end.

    Volcarona- Heatran walls it and can wear it down with multiple Fire Blasts. Gyarados and Salamence can set up a Dragon Dance, then easily OHKO it. If Volcarona has yet to get a Quiver Dance up, I could attempt to Draco Meteor it with Latias.

    Terrakion- Metagross pretty much walls Terrakion unless it's gotten a Swords Dance up or is Banded, but Metagross can still generally beat it. Latias can switch into Close Combat or Earthquake and either Surf/Draco Meteor it or trick a Choice Specs onto it. Gyarados and Salamence can switch into the same moves and KO it with their respective attacks, being able to take a Stone Edge thanks to Intimidate.

    Landorus- Ferrothorn can usually beat it one-on-one, however, it will be severely damaged in the process. Gyarados can beat Rock Polish variants by absorbing a Stone Edge thanks to Intimidate, then KOing with Waterfall. Latias can Surf it or trick a Choice Scarf onto it.

    Chandelure- Gyarados and Heatran demolish it. Salamence can deal with it one-on-one.

    Haxorus- Salamence and Latias can outspeed it and KO it easily. If Heatran has its Air Balloon intact, it can take on non-Brick Break versions. Ferrothorn can also usually take it on.

    Virizion- Heatran and Salamence keep it in check. Metagross can also beat it if nothing else is left.

    Thundurus- I usually try to prevent it from setting up a Nasty Plot. without the boost, several of my pokemon can handle it. However, if it gets the boost and it's the standard version (Timid, NP, T-Bolt, HP Ice, Focus Blast), then, barring a Focus Blast miss... I get swept. Yeah, I need a better way to deal with that thing.

    Scrafty- Metagross eats it alive. Gyarados uses it as set-up bait. If Scrafty lacks Ice Punch, then Salamence can do the same. Heatran can do some serious damage if it's a Dragon Dance variant but hasn't gotten a boost yet. Same goes for Latias.

    Reuniclus- Gyarados can beat CM Leftovers variants if they haven't gotten too many boosts. Same goes for Salamence. Latias is my main switch-in, however, because it can trick a Choice Specs onto it as it is setting up Calm Minds. Of course, Reuniclus will now hit incredibly hard, but I can beat it more easily with a bit of prediction.

    Victini- I'll need to outpredict it with Gyarados and Salamence. Latias or Heatran if nothing else is left. Victini has individual moves that beats said pokemon, however, it is usually choiced. If it isn't, then it doesn't hit hard enough and I can deal with it even more easily.

    Mienshao- Generally I intimidate it with either Salamence or Gyarados, switch Ferrothorn in to absorb the Fake Out, then switch back out to preferably Gyarados, who walls pretty much Mienshao's entire moveset bar Stone Edge, but Mienshao will need a crit to beat Gyarados after Intimidate.

    Darmanitan- See Victini.

    Keldeo- Latias beats it, and Salamence beats non-HP Ice variants. Gyarados vs. Keldeo is a stalemate if it really comes down to that.

    Genesect- It can kill most of my pokemon with proper prediction, but if the opponent mispredicts, Genesect becomes a dead weightt. A bit tougher to beat than Victini/Darmanitan since it's not as easily revenge killed.

    Tornadus- Metagross, Ferrothorn, and Latias can deal with it bar Hurricane Confusion, with their powerful attacks.

    Latias- Ferrothorn and Metagross beat non-HP Fire variants. If Latias lacks recover, Heatran can usually outstall it. If Heatran gets a Flash Fire boost, Heatran can beat Latias regardless, barring multiple lucky crits. Gyarados can also beat it one-on-one.

    Salamence- Latias outspeeds and KOs it. Salamence can attempt to Speed Tie break it. Ferrothorn and Metagross beat non-Fire Blast variants. If it gets a Dragon Dance up, though, I'm in trouble.

    Cloyster- Metagross owns it. Otherwise, I will usually sacrifice either Salamence or Gyarados by Intimidating the Cloyster. After the Intimidate, a healthy Ferrothorn can beat it.

    Politoed- Gyarados and Ferrothorn dominate all variants barring Specs Hydro Pump or Focus Blast, respectively. Latias can beat it bar Ice Beam freezing, or Choice Specs Ice Beam critting. Salamence can beat versions that lack Ice Beam.

    Venusaur- Heatran makes Venusaur wish it was never born. Latias and Salamence can also attempt to beat it. However, none of my pokemon will enjoy Sleep Powder, although Heatran can usually beat it regardless.

    Ninetails- Heatran completely walls it. Gyarados, Salamence and Latias can beat it one-on-one.

    Toxicroak- Salamence and Metagross can usually beat it, but that's about it.

    Breloom- weeeeeeeee :3 After one of my other pokemon are put to sleep and Sleep Clause activates, Latias destroys it. Salamence can beat non-Stone edge variants, and Heatran can revenge kill it if Substitute isn't up on Breloom's side and it's not a Techniloom.

    Ditto- Ditto's probably going to be killing either my Salamence or Gyarados if it's scarfed. If not, it's a Speed Tie breaker. If it IS scarfed, Ferrothorn and Metagross can now destroy it.

    Scizor- Gyarados beats it, Salamence beats it, Heatran can beat it if it doesn't switch into Superpower, and Latias will have to sacrifice itself in the process, but can trick a Choice Specs onto it.

    Ludicolo- Ferrothorn completely walls it. Latias can beat it more often than not. Gyarados will take a lot of damage in the process, but can set up some dragon dances and KO with Stone Edge.

    Metagross- Heatran beats it if the balloon is intact. Gyarados and Salamence can beat it if ThunderPunch and Ice Punch aren't there, respectively. Ferrothorn can beat non-Fire Punch variants, and Latias can trick a Choice Specs onto it.


    Infernape- Latias beats it 100% of the time if it has over ~40% of its health left, barring tons of crits. Gyarados can beat non-Thunderpunch variants, Salamence non-Ice Punch/HP Ice variants.

    Heatran- My Heatran can beat non-Air Balloon variants, usually. If my Heatran is faster, it can beat opposing Air Balloon variants, too. I can also defeat it with Gyarados.

    Dragonite- Latias outspeeds and KOs it. Ferrothorn beats non-Fire Punch/Fire Blast variants. Heatran walls non-Earthquake variants. If they get multiple dragon dances up, they become much tougher to beat.

    Whimsicott- I hate this thing. Ferrothorn pretty much walls it, though, and Latias/Metagross/Heatran can beat it one-on-one. Salamence can beat it if Fire Blast doesn't miss too much.

    Jirachi- Neither Heatran or Gyarados enjoy paralysis, but can generally take on it one-on-one barring significant hax. Metagross can wall it, and can also beat it barring significant hax. Salamence can avoid paralysis once thanks to Lum Berry, set up a Dragon Dance, then Earthquake it. Jirachi almost always looses to Ferrothorn, unless it has Fire Punch.

    Rotom-W- Ferrothorn doesn't enjoy burns and getting tricked Choice Specs/Choice Scarf, but can take everything else. Latias can usually beat it one-on-one, as can Salamence.

    Gyarados- weeeee :3 Ferrothorn is usually a full stop to it. Latias can usually beat it one-on-one. Salamence and my own Gyarados can beat non-Stone Edge variants.

    Suicune- Thanks to Taunt, Gyarados can usually beat it, but won't enjoy Scald Burns or the rare HP Electric. Latias can trick a Choice Specs onto it. Ferrothorn can usually wall it, but won't enjoy Scald Burns. Salamence can beat non-Ice Beam variants.

    Kabutops- Ferrothorn completely walls it. Metagross will take a lot of damage in the process, but can usually still beat it. Barring a crit, Latias can beat unboosted variants.

    Tyranitar- Barring Flamethrower burns and crits, Metagross can take on it. Gyarados can absorb one non-Choice Banded Stone Edge, set up a Dragon Dance, and KO it with Waterfall.

    Gliscor- Latias and Gyarados beat it. Heatran can beat slower variants, 2HKOing with Flamethrower.
    avatar
    Azotal

    Join Date : 2011-09-08
    Posts : 12

    Re: Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

    Post by Azotal on Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:02 pm

    So, this team looks like it could be good. Your threat list is spot on. If you check through that list, you'll realize that you have Pokemon that almost every team has one of. Meaning, I would guess, 70% of teams have a serious counter to your team. This team just has too may common weaknesses to be useful, in my opinion. Even if you can ultimately get rid of that Thundurus, it'll ravage three Pokemon or so.

    In addition, a lot of your team relies on Latias to defend it, a Breloom or a Conkeldurr could wreck without one. It's important to take into account that though you could stop it, they'll take down several Pokemon with them.

    The commonness of the Pokemon on your threats list is too high. There are teams made out of 6 of those.

    Just what i've noticed though.

    Breloom

    Join Date : 2011-09-11
    Posts : 19

    Re: Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

    Post by Breloom on Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:50 pm

    Yes, I agree. But I can't figure out a Pokemon that can counter all of these at once :/ If I do, though, I'll probably remove Mence.
    avatar
    Azotal

    Join Date : 2011-09-08
    Posts : 12

    Re: Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

    Post by Azotal on Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:55 pm

    Thundy can do serious damage. Focus blast, HP ice, and thunderbolt are super effective against 5 of the 6. I'm not sure, but my guess would be that Metagross CAN NOT switch into a focus blast, then take another one. You've already adressed that problem, I'm just reminding you. In addition, Electivire could pose a problem. The odd Electivire would run Ice punch; obviously some sort of electric move. Gliscor could put a crimp in that Metagross too.

    It's just countered by too many for it to be practical. Let's say someone runs a rain dance team, that has a thundurus. If you sacrifice three pokemon to kill that thundurus, you're dead.

    Breloom

    Join Date : 2011-09-11
    Posts : 19

    Re: Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

    Post by Breloom on Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:17 pm

    Actually usually the Thundurus just sweeps my entire team O.o

    That's not a good thing, is it >.>

    Well I guess I really need a solid counter for that thing >.> Problem is, he has ways to beat any counter I can think of.
    Any ideas?
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    Azotal

    Join Date : 2011-09-08
    Posts : 12

    Re: Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

    Post by Azotal on Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:19 pm

    Harsha suggested Gastrodon to me a while back, I like it a lot. He's allowed me to take on Thundie with confidence, while Toxic stalling.

    You may want to try that.

    Breloom

    Join Date : 2011-09-11
    Posts : 19

    Re: Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

    Post by Breloom on Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:45 pm

    Gastrodon, Quagsire, and Swampert. The problem I have with them that barring Swampert in the rain, none of them can OHKO Thundurus.
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    Azotal

    Join Date : 2011-09-08
    Posts : 12

    Re: Hyper Beam + Giga Impact = EPIC DESTRUCTION

    Post by Azotal on Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:23 pm

    Azotal wrote:Harsha suggested Gastrodon to me a while back, I like it a lot. He's allowed me to take on Thundie with confidence, while Toxic stalling.

    You may want to try that.



    You can toxic stall thundie easily with gastrodon. Recover/toxic/scald or ice beam/earth power. Just toxic and spam recover. It forces a switch.

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